KDE 3.5.10 packages released on Slackware.com for Slackware 13

Just as an update to my Upgrading KDE 4.2.4 to KDE 3.5.10 in Slackware 13 post, Patrick Volkerding has apparently released KDE 3.5.10 for Slackware 13.0 (link here).

This is probably a better way to go than my procedure, which was more of a proof of concept than an actual workable solution, though I have received some comments that indicate that the KDE 3.5.10 packages from Slackware 12.2 were usable in Slackware 13.0.

This quote from the README is actually one of the things causing me to feel validated in seeking another distro going forward though:

Don’t look for future updates for come from us, though — KDE4 is way to go, and KDE3 is dead. I know how it goes, though… I’ve found over the years that no feature can ever be removed without some fraction of users expressing disappointment (or even anger), and KDE3 was a truly great desktop. However, in my opinion KDE4 has already passed KDE3 in most regards and will only continue to improve.

KDE3 is only dead if people stop using it. To the contrary, there are new KDE3 communities appearing, and renewed interest has been expressed in keeping this “truly great desktop” alive.

But when Patrick states that “KDE4 has already passed KDE3 in most regards”, he must be referring to some version of KDE4 that I haven’t seen, because KDE 4.3 certainly hasn’t surpassed KDE3.

But perhaps he’s using a different definition of the word “surpassed” than I am. I confess I honestly don’t understand how anyone can use it and claim it’s “better” than what came before it when it gives the user a fraction of the options, configurability, and flexibility KDE 3.5.10 provided.

Soapbox aside, this is a great option for those who would like to see a usable desktop environment specifically packaged by Patrick for the latest Slackware release; too bad it’s going to be the last one.

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36 thoughts on “KDE 3.5.10 packages released on Slackware.com for Slackware 13

  1. God, that really pisses me off! How would Patrick feel if the Ubuntu developers declared that Slackware is dead?

    What now? In my opinion, the KDE3 upgrade you came up with for Slackware 13, works perfectly fine. If we’re going to need to come up with our own solutions in the future, we might as well start now.

    Still, whatever it is that you’ve linked to, it might be the basis of future solutions.

    Ultimately, we need our own distro. We just can’t depend on these motherfuckers to decide whether KDE3 lives or dies. We need there to be 1 distro whose stated raison d’etre is KDE3, so we know that we’re not going to have the rug pulled out from us any more. I expect that someone is going to do this, but maybe we should give it a try. Maybe this is how to starts Maybe if we build it, they will come.

    I think it should be Slackware based. One thing I’ve really noticed about Slackware is that it has spawned some great original distros. Apparently, it’s built in a way that lends itself to rebuilding.

    I think we should call it it Kiara. I’ve always enjoyed recursive acronyms, and:

    Kiara Is A Recursive Acronym.

    • I know it’s only a few dozen votes total, but I think this poll on LinuxQuestions.org’s Slackware forum says a lot about how this half-cocked decision has split the Slackware community.

      Despite the fact that it’s only 90 or so votes, it’s at the official Slackware forum, and I think it probably accurately reflects the Slackware community as a whole in its proportions.

      Any split that even can’t be good. And people still don’t think there needs to be a fork?

      Please. If anything indicates a need for KDE 3.5.10 to keep surviving, it’s that.

      I echo your sentiments for a new distro. I confess, however, that the technical details may be well beyond my capacity to help much, aside from some testing here and there. Any time I’ve tried doing anything involving the packaging or building of KDE I’ve failed miserably and given up…. it’s just way too complicated for me to grok, sadly.

  2. We’ve already come pretty close. I put the KDE3 packages you suggested on a Slackware CD disk, and it installed, and it started to boot and then it froze. Once, I actually saw a KDE3 desktop So why? Well somebody already posted something in your blog that may have been a clue.

    Anyway, if we want to fork KDE3, I say we just do it. We take the source code, call it something else, find a place to host it, and maybe a community will form to maintain the code. Or not. If KDE3 wasn’t simply dying where it is, I’d want to be cautious before taking on that responsibility, but… I don’t see where there’s much to lose. The alternative is stande here with our thumbs up our asses and watch it die.

    • Agreed. Maybe some sort of concerted effort to organize it might coalesce into an actual project community if it achieves some sort of critical mass.

      We can’t possibly know until we try, and you know… I’ve done an awful lot of searching around the web and I’ve found NOTHING.

      NOBODY else is doing this. There’s talk about it, but even that is old — from last year mostly.

  3. Brad, I’m only speaking for myself, but I propose we start respecting each other. I support KDE4, as the appropriate direction for KDE development to take, and the freely chosen desktop of a large number of users. Whatever you’re reason are for choosing KDE4, they are perfectly valid, because they’re YOU’RE reasons.

    By the same token, I’m not going to feel the need to justify my preference to every KDE4 fanboy. KDE4.2.4 on Slackware is KDE4.2.4 It’s not that bad. In fact, KDE4 is my second favorite KDE. I just prefer to run MY FAVORITE KDE.

  4. Here we go again…. Leave KDE4 alone. Please…

    I guess i must be a lucky boy because KDE4 works great on my computer with Arch. As Patrick said, KDE4 already passed KDE3 in most regards. But please, feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3. That would be a great article.

    I know, i know… You will accuse me of trolling (in bold ^^) just because i have a different opinion than you, like you usually do to other people.

    • Here we go again…. Leave KDE4 alone.

      You seem confused. This isn’t about KDE4. It’s about getting KDE 3.5.10 to work in Slackware 13.

      And stop crying. KDE4 is what happens to be in every fricking distro these days. You’ve got nothing to cry about, it’s ubiquitous.

      I swear, you KDE4 fanboys take the very existence of anyone who doesn’t lavish affection on your desktop of choice as a personal insult, don’t you?

      I guess i must be a lucky boy because KDE4 works great on my computer with Arch.

      Congratulations! I’m ecstatic for you!

      However, this is completely irrelevant to the subject being discussed.

      As Patrick said, KDE4 already passed KDE3 in most regards.

      Not in my experience, it hasn’t. By comparison to KDE 3.5.10, it’s missing applications, many applications have been broken in the transition or changed in ways that make them less useful, and it’s missing options, configurability, flexibility, and usability. So Patrick is entitled to his opinion, but that doesn’t mean he’s right. It just means he likes KDE4 and for some reason included it prematurely in Slackware 13 to the exclusion of KDE 3.5.10.

      But please, feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3. That would be a great article.

      I think I just did. And frankly, considering that again, that’s not what we’re discussing, I deem that brief explanation more than sufficient for this thread.

      I know, i know… You will accuse me of trolling (in bold ^^) just because i have a different opinion than you, like you usually do to other people.

      Not at all. I never accuse people of trolling simply because they have a different opinion than me. I accuse people of trolling who don’t bother to read before they post (as evidenced by them asking blatant troll-like questions that have already been answered if they’d bother to look).

      Now, you, for example, seem to think this article is about calling for the destruction of KDE4 by your tone (“Leave KDE4 alone. Please…”), which leads me to believe that you didn’t bother reading before you posted. Also, your comment got caught in the WordPress comment spam filter. Strike two.

      Then you hit one of my pet peeves lately square on the nose: you come here and instead of offering something constructive to the discussion, you insist that I back up my position of KDE4 not suiting my needs when that’s not even close to what this is about. That’s strike three.

      Why should I not just delete your comments? DO you have anything to add to the discussion, other than just KDE4 fanboyism?

      • And stop crying

        lol. I think you are getting it wrong. You see, i use KDE4 and i’m happy with it. You, on the contrary are not. You are crying for KDE3 salvation.

        Please, let’s not discuss fanboyism. Both of us are fanboys for the desktop we choose. I can quote some sentences from your posts that will say just that.

        By comparison to KDE 3.5.10, it’s missing applications, many applications have been broken in the transition or changed in ways that make them less useful, and it’s missing options, configurability, flexibility, and usability

        Again, be more specific. What apps? What options? what flexibility? what usability? That’s what i was talking about when said “please, feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3.”

        I accuse people of trolling who don’t bother to read before they post (as evidenced by them asking blatant troll-like questions that have already been answered if they’d bother to look).

        Read above.

        your comment got caught in the WordPress comment spam filter. Strike two.

        Oh, that…. i’m sorry, next time i write an real email address. It’s not a strike, it’s just WordPress being stupid.

        you come here and instead of offering something constructive to the discussion…

        Here’s my constructive ‘thing’ (again):
        Please, feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3. Exactly where do you think KDE4 fails. It’s not “kde4 fails on usability”. That says absolutely nothing.

        • Again, be more specific. What apps? What options? what flexibility? what usability? That’s what i was talking about when said “please, feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3.”

          That’s not what this article is about. If I went into excruciating detail on WHY I reject KDE4 as a replacement for KDE3 every single time I made a post here I’d be repeating myself an awful lot, and it would make every single post about 3x as long as it needs to be.

          Suffice to say, KDE4 doesn’t meet my needs. Period. For the purposes of THIS article, I don’t need to say any more on that subject, particularly since I’ve discussed that to death in other posts here.

          Here’s my constructive ‘thing’ (again):
          Please, feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3. Exactly where do you think KDE4 fails. It’s not “kde4 fails on usability”. That says absolutely nothing.

          Irrelevant to this article. That would do absolutely nothing to aid in keeping KDE3 alive in Slackware, in helping other users who are seeking that as a solution to their KDE4 woes, and it would add nothing of relevance to anything we’re discussing.

          I’ll type this slowly for you, since you’re having trouble understanding it. MOST people who find usefulness in this post have already rejected KDE4 for some reason, and are moving on from it in other ways, many of which involve using KDE3.

          This is NOT a discussion on WHY. That’s already a foregone conclusion. It’s been discussed and rediscussed and it’s not the current topic here.

          In other words, stop trolling.

          So I ask again… do you actually have anything constructive to add? A few good tips on packaging KDE 3.5.10 for new versions of other distros that have abandoned KDE3? Some procedural help for users who might not know where to start when it comes to finding KDE3 repositories for their distro? A suggestion for where to find a KDE3 community where some actual work to this end is being done?

          Because if not, all you’re doing is trying to get attention.

          • In other words, stop trolling.

            You really like that word, don’t you? Do you see why people think twice before posting on your site? If you don’t what other people’s opinion, then lock your threads.

            That’s not what this article is about

            What part of “feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3. That would be a great article.” you didn’t understand?

            Now, before you call me troll again, i must say that on Arch you can install KDE3 using the kdemod repository (http://chakra-project.org/about-kdemod.html). The KDEMOD3 community is still very active.

            • You really like that word, don’t you?

              I just calls ‘em as I sees ‘em.

              Do you see why people think twice before posting on your site?

              I hope they do. It’s annoying when people post comments without thinking. Usually the quality of what they post is directly proportionate to how much thought they put into what they say.

              If you don’t what other people’s opinion, then lock your threads.

              Actually, I enjoy reading other peoples’ opinions. But there’s a difference between that and trolls. There’s also a time and a place. Not every place is appropriate for someone to come barging in and saying “BUT WHY? WHY DON’T YOU LIKE KDE4?”. When someone insists on doing that, it isn’t a matter of not wanting “other peoples’ opinions”. It’s a matter of signal to noise. That’s the “noise” part of the equation. You know. “Useless information that distracts from the subject”.

              What part of “feel free to write on what areas you think KDE4 didn’t surpass KDE3. That would be a great article.” you didn’t understand?

              I understand it completely. And it’s still irrelevant. And, given the overall tone when you’ve said that, it read (to me, at least) as more argumentative than anything, and frankly, I’m weary of that.

              I’ve actually tried several times to write just such an article, but I eventually decided that there wasn’t much point. Guys like you would only pick it apart to tell me how my opinion is “wrong”, and the KDE devs would never read it — and would never bother doing anything as a result of it even if they did.

              So really, what would be the point?

              Now, before you call me troll again, i must say that on Arch you can install KDE3 using the kdemod repository (http://chakra-project.org/about-kdemod.html). The KDEMOD3 community is still very active.

              Thanks, that’s actually useful information!

  5. http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=66490
    File a feature request, jerks.

    Full of opinions and great ideas that get censored by the zealots.
    https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/what-featureschanges-would-you-like-to-see-in-future-slackware-605827/

    Wonder when was the last time they updated “Gnu Parted?” The answer is version 1.8.8 in 2007. Why just this year there was a version 1.9 released in July.
    I guess it’s stable.

    The question, why release so soon?
    1. Volkerding had to of known that everyone was having problems with Intel drivers. A little research and you find that these problems are corrected in 2.6.31 release, intel 2.8.1, and of course now Mesa 7.5.1. So it would have been beneficial to halt the release and let everyone catch up. ATI, Nvidia would have had drivers for version 2.6.31 of the kernel and the latest Xorg server. Intel doesn’t matter apparently Release Release

    2. Kpackage was broken right from the start.
    They don’t support it was the answer.
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/kde-in-slack-13-kpackage-747604/

    3. If the words gnome or pam ever lands on the requirements document, then you can expect it not to be in Slackware. Opinions opinions.

    Release Release

    Even Ubuntu, release release….

    Only thing I really liked about Slackware was all the devleopment packages got installed by default.

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  8. So how do I utilize these “official” kde3.5.10 packages?
    It looks like I should still follow the method in your other post? That is, download the packages, install a minimal slackware, then use pkgtool to install the 3.5.10 packages?

    I noticed a couple differences from the list of files you gave in the other post versus the available official files. You listed knemo, kdepim and bus-qt3, but I do not see those on the ftp site (ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/unsupported/kde-3.5.10-for-slack13.0/packages/i486/)

    I can live without knemo and kdepim, but the dbus-qt sounds kinda important.

    Any further advice on installation using these new official packages? Thanks.

    • I would follow Patrick’s instructions, though I noticed they were rather brief. I would think that a clean Slackware 13 install without KDE4 should be your foundation, and then install the 3.5.10 packages from the Slackware site.

      As for dbus-qt3, I thought that important; if Patrick doesn’t, it may not be, but I do believe some KDE3 apps/processes depend on it.

      It might be worth leaving it off, just to see if any problems arise; you can always install it afterwards if there are.

      Other than that, I think you got it… pkgtool makes it pretty simple.

  9. I’ve actually tried several times to write just such an article, but I eventually decided that there wasn’t much point. Guys like you would only pick it apart to tell me how my opinion is “wrong”

    Guys like me? I don’t think you understand me. Writing about exactly why KDE4 fails on you will allow people like me to help you out. I’m not here to juge you. Hey, i was a KDE3 user before using KDE4 and i loved it. In fact, i never seriously used Gnome. Saying KDE4 sucks because, only leads to trolling. Posting concrete reasons allow people to help you. I think your fear to be trolled leads you to write inconcrete posts about “sensitive” subjects. And that kind of behavior attracts trolls.

    • Writing about exactly why KDE4 fails on you will allow people like me to help you out.

      Help me out how? I don’t need help with KDE4… which is why your asking for specifics is irrelevant, like I keep saying.

      If you had something useful to add about KDE 3.5.10, that’d be helpful. But I fail to see how my providing details on what I don’t like about KDE4 would have anything to do with that subject.

  10. Yesterday, I was tweeted by a fellow who goes by the name pancheee. He’s a KDE4 fan, but not a fanboy, and I sspect that he may have finally, a long last, isolated the problem that has devidied the community:

    pancheee @GNULinuxMadman The BIG Issue about KDE4 is You cannot run it over old machines :(. Gnome has the advantage here. (old => 5 years ago)

    But KDE4 uses less resources, right? I did a google search for “KDE4 uses less reources than KDE3″, and it appears that this legend which seems to be repeated more and more all the time, is based on a test that was done in late 2007 on KDE4.0, but which stated that KDE4 used 40 per cent less resources and was later turned out to be incorrect; it was 20 per cent more.

    To their credit, KDE developers were instrumental in finding the mistake, but the claim got WAY more traction on the web than the correction, and the forty per cent figure still gets repeated to this day. A guy in my favorite IRC Linux chat quoted the 40 per cent figure to me just last week.

    I went through five pages of Google results for “KDE4 uses less resources than KDE3″, and I never saw anything that looked like a reference to any study other than the late 1997.

    I thought I’d made my peace with KDE4, but I’m mad all over again, because for for most of the past couple of years I’d thought that what I was seeing with my own eyes must be some kind of anomoly, but now I’m talking to people, and everyone sees the same thing. If I need an upgrade to run it, that’s a big fat FAIL, and yeah, I thought the comaprisons with Vista were overstated, but I’m beginning to see how wrong I was.

    The biggest fail of all is apparently no one taking responsibility for managing misinformation in the community.

    Oh well. Next time I’ll know enough to be the one who takes responsibility. But if you want a specific criticism of KDE4, it’s slower than crap. How’s that?

    I still think that this is the forerunner of important and necesssary developments, but I resent that, while I was temporarily hypnotized into not believing my eyes, the options for using the non-slower-than-crap desktop have dwindled to practically nothing. I might switch to Gnome, but what’s this i keep hearing about them having a big new release coming up?

  11. I use Slackware 13 on a MacBook. That is, intel video driver. KDE4.2 had the following flaws:

    1. Some X apps would freeze the machine. Say, for instance, xfig. I have not found a graphics application as simple and powerfull, so I started using xfce on a regular basis. I will not blame on anybody, this surely is just something that happened, but it is strange, since is a lightweight app.

    2. Amarok would not play most of my collection. I listen tracks with spaces and non english characters on the name, and those would just not play.

    3. Last but not least, KDE4 is resource hungry. It will complain about stigri puting itself off “to save resources” or something like that.

    4. Compositing was a real trouble. It was enabled by default, and since I could run compiz on slack 12 I tought it would also work, but it made everything really slow.

    I guess Pat and the guys relized that many of us felt the need of kde3.5 back… just because it worked. I agree with the “kde3.5 is dead” as a statement of the lack of a developer/user base backing up that environment. Probably when he said that KDE4 surpassed kde3.5 he was talking about the development softare paradigms… maybe it will be easier/cleaner to improve kde4… in the end it was the KDE3.5 developers which decided to make the chance!. But yes, his decision to roll out 3.5 again shows that, for some of the end users, as me, it is not yet ready.

    So, he made a bad decision, for some of us. If this leads you guys to make a new distro, good for you, I hope it succeeds and surpases slack.

  12. Hi! I agree with Trent 100%… I used slack 12.2 with KDE3.5.10 for over 2 and a half years before I decide to upgrade with a fresh install to Slack 13 / KDE 4.4.3….. it was the beginning of the end… First of all, dont get me wrong, Slack 13 brought some great system improvements and was much needed. However, the choice to migrate slack, renowned for its simplicity, stability and ease of use was TOTALLY wrecked with KDE 4… KDE 4 is SLOW, unstable, incomplete, much of the appz are broken or they dont perform like they should, and the worst thing is the windows/apple like “after taste” I have using KDE4.. Nemopuk? Strigi????? Akonadi??????????? give me a break! I experienced so MANY problems with ONLy these 3 appz, imagine my whole experience… I am TOTALLY disppointed. I lost emails, contacts, I even lost my KDE profile uninstalling that strigi crap that was causing my system to be overslow….

    ANyways, I am trying to re-install slack 13 with Pat’s KDE3.5.10 packages and i HOPE for the best. If it doesnt work, well back to Slack12.2 or anything else…..

  13. Hey, it’s 2012, and here I am, looking up this old article in the hope of getting KDE 3.5 working on Slackware 13.37 I have KDE4 working on my two Desktops, and it’s okay, but there’s no way it’s going to work on this old laptop.

    So where are we? I think we’re doing fine. There are still options for running KDE 3 for those who want them. The Trinity fork works great with Ubuntu, and now there’s a live CD, Porteus, that runs Trinity. There’s still a Vector linux distro with KDE3, Slax 6.1.2, and my own Slax based CD, KIARA just released a new version with Firefox 10.0, and XFCE is a lot more polished as a Desktop.

    I believe that KDE 3 is still viable, it’s always going to be an obscure alternative, but that good enough for those who really want it. Free software took pretty good care of us.

  14. I’m happy to report that this still works in Slackware 13.37, and so far, it’s working perfectly. Two and a half years later, I’m running a laptop with KDE 3.5.10 and the latest stable release of Slackware, the latest stable version of Firefox, Opera, and Google-chrome, and it makes me wonder what I was getting so mad about back then.

  15. I just want to say, down here on the bottom of the page where it can be seen that I’m still running KDE3 on Slackware. For me, these KDE3 packages work just fine on Slackware 13.37, even now, three years later. KDE4 is okay, at least since I learned to stop stopped dicking around with the widgets and set it to Folderview. I run it on my Kubuntu Box, but on lower spec machines I still run KDE3.5 all the time, sometimes with Slackware 13.37, and sometimes with my customized Slax CD, KIARA, which anyone can download at http://www.kiaragnulinux.blogspot.com.

    As a veteran of the KDE4 flamewars, I can look back at how frantic I was about KDE4 and realize that it was mostly an overreaction. I’ve already installed Slackware 14 as a beta, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you can run these KDE3 packages on it. With KDE3 still an option, KDE4 usable (if you’ve got a good computer) , and XFCE coming on strong in Debian, I think everybody gets what they need.

  16. anyone here actually USE kde 4.2.4 in slackware, or just going by past “bad” experiences in other distros that did a shady job with kde 4.2.x and/or ubuntu’s bastardization of kde 4.3.1 from their unofficially supported ppa repo’s?

    Yes, as a matter of fact, we have. Read around before you post next time.

  17. When Patrick says that KDE4 has surpassed KDE3 in many respects, he’s not lying, and he’s not imagiining things, but he’s seeing things in term of forward motion, and that’s only one dimention. KDE4 has convinced me that developers see things in terms of forward motion. To my way if thinking, KDE4 is more “advanced ” than KDE3, but it”s also less “perfect”.

    I think that “perfection” is really the issue with KDE3. It’s sort of reached the point where it can’t be significantly improved any more, and that’s certainly one definition of perfection. Moving things forward is what developers do. They’re driven to make things better, and this trait is to be celebrated, admired, and encouraged. From the applications to the desktops to the distros, Linux is completely driven by developers, which I think occasionally sucks for users. When software becomes perfect, it is natural and proper that the developers should want to abandon it, but the users are another story. Users like perfection, and they shouldn’t be compelled to follow the developers into advanced but imperfect realms. The noncommercial aspect is probably part of the problem. In business the customer is always right, because the customer is paying money.

    KDE4 is not the problem. It is absolutely what the developers should be doing. The problem is that we have to follow them, even though for us, discarding software for being perfect is madness. But you see, that’s our problem, not theirs. It’s wrong to blame them for it. We have to find a way to take care of ourselves. I think live CDs may be a sometime solution, though it does sound kind of wimpy, but we should solve the problem as best we can, because it’s gonna come up again. Sooner or later, they’re going to fix KDE4, and you KNOW what’s gonna happen the minute KDE4 starts really working well. We need a way to be self determining without being developers ourselves. I’m just not as smart as these guys. I keep learning, but I’m pretty slow. The way I’m going, I’ll probably learn how to program just about the time the alzheimers hits me. I see myself at 85, designing Unix applications, but unable to remember my own name.

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